ipcc house property questions

>> depending on how far we get today we might delve into at least introducing bailments. and here are the objectives for the chapter. they are at the start of your chapter. it is kind of funny the chapter starts on personal property, but the first objective is about real property. i think in this chapter they kind of give you an idea of the difference between the two to kind of set the framework

for this chapter and the next chapter. property is more of a legal concept than most people think. if you drive down the road you see lots and houses. i see bundles of rights. what was that movie where the kid saw dead people? it is kind of like me with i see bundles of rights. then we will talk about now only how you can individually hold property but how you can hold it with someone

else, so those types of joint or co-ownership. we will look at the elements of a gift. it is appropriate, right? as we go into the holiday season, if you are into gift giving and holidays and all of that, to talk about the different types of gifts. i have little legal things you can say to whoever you are giving the gift to and make it kind of nice. then we will talk about bailments,

probably a little in this class and most next class after thanksgiving, and then a little about insurance. so, starting out with just an idea of what property is, if you own property in the legal sense you have legally protected rights and interest, and those have value. one of the first things the authors try to do is distinguish between real and personal property. as you did your reading what seemed

to be the big distinction between the two? remember that from your reading? >> real property is land and everything attached to it. >> right. >> personal property is anything that is movable. >> so it starts with kind of a definition -- the definition is kind of what it is and what it is not. so real property is this, and anything else is personal property. i will try to go in a

little more detail about that. it breaks down a little bit in terms of if you define real property as non-movable, personal property as movable, generally that is the case, but can't you move real property? haven't you ever seen a house move? anybody ever seen a shovel, that device you put in the ground and move dirt with? that is moving real property. so in a sense property can change.

it is in the ground it is real property. you dig it up it is personal property. you put it back in. you have a tree and it is real property because it is attached to the land. you cut it down and it becomes two-by-fours and is personal property. you buy it in a store and put it in a house, and now it is real property again. you have a modular home, you are driving in a home. right? it

comes in parts down the highway with the extra wide sign on the back of it. it gets on the lot and it is still personal, and then it gets put on the lot and becomes part of the land. it goes on and on. it is kind of a neat and tidy definition when they say movable and non-movable, because there is also personal property that is really hard to move. anybody have an example because i am

kind of stuck. >> pole barn. >> right. well, it depends on where it is. if it is a bundle that hasn't been built yet, that would be a large bulky bundle that would be hard to move. once it gets attached i think that would be part of the real property. how big can you get? ship? carnival cruise ship? that would be pretty big. >> what about fans you see on some barns? >> fans? >> yeah, bit

old -- >> windmill? >> windmill. >> oh, a fan farm, yes. yeah, i think what you are getting into is that kind of in between called a fixture. so some things are moved to the property and they are personal property, but once they get attached to the land they become part of that land and they are known as a fixture. of course, when i say fixture what do you think of? >> lights. >> lights,

toilet, faucets, things like that. but fixtures are pretty much things that were personal but become permanently attached to the land. we will talk a little about that in a little bit. then there is different ways you can own all this property. if you are looking at property as a bundle of rights, then you ought to be able to do different things with it. think everything you brought

into the room today, your laptop, your drink, your paper, your clothes, all those things are personal property. how did you get them? you made your hat. you purchased it at the store. you got something gifted. you got that vest gifted to you, right? your ipad. what is that? is that officially a gift or you are using it and your dad doesn't know? >> i would say it is a gift. >> okay.

you would say that. he knows he is never getting it back, right? we will talk about that when we get to gifts. we get our property in different ways. we might get it gifted to us, we might get it --anybody actually make something? did you download it? >> i did. >> i am addicted to it. i had an angry birds tournament last night. >> i make model airplanes. >> you make model

airplanes. so you start with what? >> parts. >> parts. what kind of parts? >> plastic parts. >> plastic parts. then you build them into something else. that is a good example. you find a log and whittle it into a coffee table. >> that would take a while. >> it would take a while, but it could happen. there is also different ways you can dispose of property. see the last one up

there. we talk about the laws governing lost, mislaid, or abandoned property. i think a lot of people just group things into lost. i lost my remote. well, when we talk about the difference we will talk about that, whether you really lost it or you mislaid it. probably didn't abandon it. maybe. >> if you were to blow something up would it be abandoned? >> it depends. it depends on your

intent when you blow it up. so when we get to that we will talk about blowing things up. so here it is on this slide. the biggest bundle of rights you can have to property, possess it, sell it, give it away, give it away now. that was weird. lease it. i don't know why that even came out of my mind. or blow it up, right, destroy it. you could do all those things with it if it is yours and you have

the biggest bundle of rights. right? think about your car. how many of you possess your car? >> i don't have a car. >> has it been repossessed? you don't have one, right? okay. if you do, or truck, or whatever, you possess it, you drive it. you can sell it if it's yours. maybe you could gift it to someone else. maybe you are leasing. anybody leasing? if you are,then it is really not

yours. when you are done making those payments you are supposed to give it back unless you buy it. if you are leasing it or paying for it, you shouldn't blow it up. >> so what if we are still making car payments? >> yes. so the question is who owns it. that is a good question. on a lot of things you can own something and someone else have an interest in it or lien in it. so much

like a landlord can own a building but then lease it out and give an interest to someone else for a period of time, you can own your car and have title to it but have the title not be clear. versus in a lease situation someone else has title to it, and you are just paying for the right to use it. did i tell you about that, how gm sent me the title one time? that doesn't jive in terms of what

we were just talking about in terms of ownership. i should not be getting the title to a lease. that was like the -- i knew once that happened then gm was going down the tubes. the were going to screw lots of things up. they are coming back now, right?public offer, making a profit. you guys all paid for it. >> you get rid of a division like pontiac, that is a bad sign right there.

>> there you go. so now the weird terms. no one talks like this except lawyers. fee simple. fee simple is the biggest bundle of rights you can have to property. if you hear fee simple that means you can do pretty much anything with it that is legal. so you own land in fee simple then you could sell it, lease it, do a variety of different things with it. >> you can't grow weed. >> did you

say wheat or weed? >> weed. >> well, in most cases no, unless the law permits you to. it has to grow somewhere, right? it is lawful in some situations, right, so where is it growing? >> license. >> in closets. >> i don't know what you are saying. it is growing somewhere. then in chapter 36 we will talk about real property. right? no? this is the expanded edition of the textbook. next

chapter we will be talking about real property. so we were talking in the beginning about how you can own property yourself. now we are starting to talk about how you might own it with someone else. just like when we were talking about partnerships and other things we have talked about, it could be -- we talked about contracts and parties to a contract. it could be more than two. there

could be multiple tenants in common or joint tenants. for purposes of this slide, a tenancy in common is a specific legal term that describes when two parties own an undivided interest in the property and if something happens to one of them the property passes to their heirs. so that is the drawing there. so a and b own and undivided interest in the property. b dies. instead of the

interest passing to a it goes to c. if you think about that, if the new owner is c, who could c be? not b. >> an heir? >> yes, it is an heir,but who could it be? >> son. >> could be a son, daughter,spouse, someone that he doesn't like, somebody that is not very competent or doesn't know the business, so if you own property in businesses you have to be concerned about this sort of stuff because

you may end up working with someone who doesn't know what they are doing. you may not get what you invested in it out. so you want to have some type of agreement if you are going to own partnership property together with someone else. but a tenancy in common means your interest passes to your heirs. distinguish that from a joint tenancy. a and b own the property jointly, but in this case

instead of b's interest passing to c it goes to a. again, remember there could be a, b and c. there could be three joint tenants. c dies. now a and b own an undivided interest in it. if there is only two and one of them dies there is no more joint tenancy, right, because it goes to a.that is the end of the story. now, what happens if a is not around? the property doesn't go poof and it doesn't

exist anymore. then it will go to a's heirs. whatever a was supposed to get a's heirs do get. >> what if a kills b? >> if a kills b. it has happened, especially on tv. one of the questions is if you kill someone for a profit is that legal or not. we talked about the criminal law stuff, so i bet you can answer that question. there, he killed b right there. oops. i didn't mean to go that fast.

hold on. i got so excited about killing. all right. community property. every state is not a community property state. it is a statutory thing. california is an example. they do everything weird in california. basically the idea is property acquired during the term of a marriage becomes property of both parties to the marriage regardless of where it came from. so no argument over who paid for it or

how you got it. if it happened during the marriage then the statute says you have an undivided half interest in it. >> unless there is a prenup. >> well, in some cases that is true unless the purpose of the prenuptial agreement is to avoid the law. so if you agree to do something that was illegal that would be a problem. but, yes, where there is latitude in statutes you could reach

an agreement in a prenuptial agreement. i won't ask you that on the group quiz or exam and say but there is a prenup. this is kind of a summary of what we talked about so far. there is a concept summary in your chapter of the different ways you can own property. this means real and personal. we will get more specific about real next chapter.yeah. >> so in order for something to be fee simple it

would have to be paid off? >> no. no. so you could have the rights to sell your property even though somebody has the lien on the property. you just have to pay off the lien in order to do it. >> (indistinct speaking) >> right. you can do what you need to do with it. you have the control. now, there are certain things you will have to do if you are going to do that. if there is a

tax lien or you borrow money or whatever you will have to take care of that. this means this is really about what you can do with the property that you have. all right. so we were mentioning at the start of class there are different ways that you could get personal property. we are shifting gears from more of a general conversation about all property to personal property. that is that movable,

tangible, sometimes intangible property, everything from your book to your clothes to pretty much anything that is not considered real property. right now that is big. opening day of capturing wild animals by position and obtaining title or whatever they call that. supposedly bambi is running out there in the woods. you shoot him. bambi is a boy, right, lost his mom, like every disney movie? so not

belonging to anybody and then all the sudden bam and now they are yours. subject to where you shot it and other laws relating to the fact it can't be yours. you can't go to a zoo and shoot an animal and claim it to be yours. >> what if you run into it with a car? >> there are some laws around that, too. i suppose it would make a difference of whether you are chasing it around in a field

or it walks out in front of you. what is that commercial on tv with the insurance company? what is the guy's name? allstate insurance and the guy havoc -- no, not havoc.mayhem, yes, the one where he is a deer and prances out on the highway and gets hit. >> see the one where he comes off the car like he is one of the college things they put on cars? >> oh, no, i need to see that. >> (indistinct

speaking) >> i'll do that. all right. so another way you can get position and ownership of personal property is to find property that is abandoned. now, we will define later what we mean by abandoned property. i will start by saying you don't want to assume everything is abandoned. i don't wait every class for you to leave and then pick up all your wallets, ipads, other

devices and keep them and say i guess they didn't want it. there might be sometimes where you find property and based on how you find it, it probably is abandoned, as you drive around in michigan what do you see on the side of the road besides deer that you just ran over?>> for sale signs. >> (indistinct speaking) >> a lot of vehicles and trash. trash probably definitely abandoned,

unless someone put it there and is like i will be back for it. cars, just don't start picking up cars on the side of the road. doesn't mean somebody abandoned it there. could be they ran out of gas, they parked. then another legal concept we will get into more detail in the next chapter called adverse possession. statutory law that says if you occupy someone else's land long enough

or personal property you hold onto long enough it might become yours. >> squatter's rights? >> yeah, sometimes it is called squatter's rights. i always picture someone just squatting. it is just weird. i just picture someone for years just squatting on some land. but that is the idea. you occupy it, you take care of it. no one else has. you can see that you are. there is a statute that

says if you do that long enough under these circumstances, which we will go through each element, then you could bring a legal action to say it's mine now. production. we mentioned some examples of making things. you got an idea in your head. it comes out into some kind of form. you write down a song. you write poetry. anybody into poetry? you guys into anything? >> (indistinct speaking).

>> okay. you write your own? >> sometimes. >> there you go. want to share some with us? >> no. >> it is in your head and then it came out. once it came out now it is yours and you can actually have intellectual property -- intangible property rights to that. do you have any published poetry? >> no. some day maybe. >> we will look for it. >> then you get into copyright laws and all that

stuff. >> sure, sure. in business law ii. you can take it next semester, if it wasn't full. gifts. you may have heard that term before. the legal definition of a gift is a voluntary transfer of property ownership from the donor, the one making the donation, to the donee, the one the gift is made to, for no consideration. notice this is different than a contract. contract requires

consideration. this doesn't. in fact, that is the idea, giving somebody something for nothing. it is a gift. so try that out this holiday season. instead of wrapping up a present and putting a little card on it and everything just hand it to them and say here, accept my voluntary transfer of property ownership from me the donor to you the donee for no consideration. i am sure

they will like that. i dare you to. do a video. let's all see how that goes. so then when you get smacked just say it was my fault. breaking that down here are the elements. voluntary transfer is someone who with donative intent gives a gift to someone else. meaning when i say here, as i hand you personal property, my intent is for you to keep it. that is not true of everything,

right? if i said here, hold my coat, would you go woo-hoo, i have been needing a new coat and run off with it? no. now if i wrapped it up and handed it to you or said here, it is yours, you don't need to pay me for it, or gave it to my kids, that would be different. the first thing you are looking for is the intent has to be donative. in other words, you have to intend to give a gift. then

delivery. it is not enough just to think it, which has been pretty true all semester, right? crimes you can't just have intent and not do it. gifts you have to do more than just like -- i try that on my wife. getting home i go i almost stop and got you flowers. it's the thought that counts,right? apparently not. you have to do more. you have to go get them and deliver them. that

delivery could be actual, here's the flowers, or constructive, right, have someone else do it. there is a case in your chapter, case 23. 1 -- i think that is actually the right case number and chapter -- in re estate of piper. you know when you say in re estate of piper there are probably some families fighting over a will.it is probably a probate case, and that is the case here. it says there was

no evidence of actual delivery of rings to the plaintiff kaufmann. thus the rings remand in the estate of piper. so what were the facts in that case? if you didn't read it, glance at your book, if you have your book. next step pull it out and go this is personal property. book is personal property, right? i didn't used to be able to talk about this because usually you would buy your book or

borrow your book, but now you an rent your book. anybody renting it? >> yeah. >> yeah? >> i think. yup. >> there you go, rent a text, right on the front of there. you can also get it online now, right? >> yeah. >> so in that case in the facts why wasn't there any evidence of an actual delivery? what happened here? does anybody remember? >> she said she was going to wear them until she

died. >> somebody is taking care of her. you know people like this. somebody is taking care of them, so they say you can have everything. somebody has been taking care of her, and maybe she really did say i want you to have this, i just want to hold onto it. you can have it later. but then what happens? as will always happen somebody dies, and then there is an estate, and then

what do you think happened? other people who were supposed to get the ring as part of the estate said huh-uh. one element of a gift is delivery. without it you could just say she promised me that, and she can't say anything. so if you want to give a gift you have to do more than think it or say it. you have to give it. if you don't then later there is no evidence you were going to give

it. i will get your question in a second. if you did want to give a gift after you die how would you give written instructions to someone else to do it for you?in a will. that is the point of this is it should have went in the will. you settle the estate and put the will into probate, and it says in there this is how i want my specific devise to this person, thanks for taking care of me, here is

my ring. if you want to wear your ring until you die then that is how you do it. you don't just keep it. there has been lots of cases where someone dies and the same day the family is hauling stuff out of their house. aunt gertrude promised me the china. no, she promised me the coin collection or whatever. so it is a good idea to either deliver it before death -- i have seen people who have

put stickies over everything, which is kind of a weird way to live, right? your whole house has stickies on it, like when i die give this to so-and-so. >> another way -- >> hold on a second. >> i just have a quick question. like when my great grandma died she let my mom and her siblings and cousins -- after she had donated most of the stuff, she let them kind of scavenge. it was kind of

weird, but -- >> did they put it in a pile and like peck at it? >> they took like -- how would the law apply? >> well, we get into more detail of that in business law ii. so estate planning. basically the idea is when it comes down for you to write down how you want your stuff to go you could say first i want so-and-so to have -- i mentioned specific devises. list them. i want my real

property to go this way and my personal property to go to this person. then the rest of it i don't care so much.so more of a general devise to a group, my kids, my spouse, my whatever. and then you could also leave instructions to your personal representative of how that is to be handled. sometimes people go they all get along and they will figure it out. other times it is

this person is responsible and they are to sell it all off, divvy up the money -- now, that kind of upsets families. that is why there is a specific devise, because in some cases someone wants that heirloom. they don't want somebody to sell it and give them the money for it. it is worth much more to them than it is to someone else. did that answer your question? >> yup. >> okay. >> what about

the case of living wills? >> well, it depends on how you use the term living will. often a living will people used to describe anything from if i am still living but can't make decisions for myself to more of a trust like relationship. so it really depends on how you use that term. i think what you might be thinking of is, is there a way to give your property before you die and not have control

over it yourself and the answer is yes, you can put your stuff in trust. without getting too far of track that is what a lot of people do. they create a trust but then fail to designate their property as owned by the trust. so then they die and it is like there is a trustee and a trust, and what is in it? nothing. or whatever was there at the time, but now what the person acquired after they

set up the trust. so in a lot of cases they will do what is called a pour-over will that says whatever property i do have when i die goes into my trust. that is beyond the scope of this. then the last element, acceptance. what would have had to happen in re estate of piper case to have all three elements? >> (indistinct speaking) >> either you would handle it in a will, or what if she wanted to

give it as a gift? >> (indistinct speaking). >> yeah, right. here, i want you to have this because you have taken such good care of me over these years. why, thank you, and then take it. if she said no, i couldn't, you already pay me or i do it out of the kindness of my heart and then later went she didn't give it to me, it still wouldn't matter because she didn't accept

it. so you need intent, delivery, and acceptance. there are three types of gifts. there is a gift intervivos, which means while living, which is the easiest way to give a gift. it is harder to give things after you die, unless you tell someone else to do it. so usually you say here is my gift. now you can say here is my intervivos gift. it gives it a little extra flare. there is gift causa

mortis, which means in contemplation of death. these are special gifts you give because you think you are going to die imminently. like the only reason i am giving this to you is because i am not going to be around much longer. but it has to be in contemplation of death, not something else, not years down the road, and not something differently than what you contemplated. is

there a slide on that? i was thinking there was. not so much. let's talk about it here. not to pick on any real disease, let's say i am going to die from some made-up disease. what is it? this is the creative interactive part of the class. you get to live out your fantasy where your professor dies. (laughing) >> spinal syphilis. >> no, that could be real. plus, then the word spreads

from the recording. everybody listens to it. i thought you said something. >> flying herpes. >> let's not make it some communicable disease or std of some kind. is that all you think about? >> (indistinct speaking) >> yes, that's it. in fact, we struggled with that this weekend. my kids are as weird as me. one of my kids can't stand it when someone is chewing gum. anybody else

have this? >> yes. >> you have a weird chewing thing where you want to strangle someone who is chewing something. you got it. that is okay. it's not just him then. he swears the smell of someone else chewing gum might cause him to start choking. so let's say i have that. i passed it onto him. i have this disease where if somebody chews gum near me i start going into convulsions and can't

breathe and am going to die. so it turns out i am hospitalized as a result of this. they tell me you have three days to live. i decide -- because you all are visiting me every day, right? >> we are so concerned. >> yes, you are. we still have the final exam? >> am i going to pass? >> right. >> do i have to take the class again? >> did you get that last practical exercise graded before

you keel over? so you come over, and i am like you are my favorite class. i want you to have all my stuff. i just start giving things away. i want you to have my iphone, you to have my jeep. and i can't get out of bed someone would be chewing gum as i go down the hall, so i hand you the keys. what is that called? >> delivery. >> what kind of delivery? >> symbolic. >> symbolic or

constructive delivery. it is not actual. i am not going down and getting it for you and delivering it to you. i am saying here. i am only doing it because i think i am going to die. so what i am saying -- catch what i am saying about gift causa mortis. i am only doing it because i am going to die. it has to be soon. and it has to be from the death i contemplate dying of. >> what happens if you

don't? >> yes. then you would be hugely disappointed because you wouldn't get my jeep. let's say moments later someone comes to the door and says you are on the hit new tv show where we tell people they are dying of some disease and it turns out to be a joke and you are fine. wouldn't that be great? so, shucks, they got me, right? so i get up and go to leave and you run me over with my

jeep. (laughing) but it is not the death i contemplated dying of. it is not me saying i am going to get me ran over some day, so you can have my jeep. it is me saying i am dying from this, and i have to die from that. so this is kind of weird, right? i might not die from it really, even though i contemplate i am going to.and i might die from something else. or whatever happens to me may not

result in my death, it turns out. so it is a weird one. >> you walk out and get hit and go into a coma. >> right. so i am not dead, just in a coma. there was something else i wanted to say about this. in the end do you really want to go to the secretary of state and say my professor got bubble gumitis, gave me this jeep and here is the keys, and just trust me and give me the title? probably doesn't work

that way. they might require more than that. so if i am on my death bed and trying to give my jeep and keys, make sure you get me to sign over the title or put it in a will. don't just say you can have it because i am going to die. >> so you pop some gum. >> i give you the keys, and you jam the gum down my throat. all right. then finally, testamentary, which is what we have been

talking about. it is gifts you give after you die, and the way you do that is give written instructions to someone else to do it for you. death doesn't have to be imminent. instead, death is assured, it is going to happen to you at some time or another. it is a good idea to write the instructions before you die. it is kind of a morbid class. all right. so other ways you could get ownership

over personal property, and these two are probably the most confusing. the first is called accession, where someone takes something and adds so much value to it that it really becomes something else of more value. remember earlier i was saying whittling a tree into a coffee table? i mean, it could happen. you could think of examples where someone might find something

and take it and -- and it would be unfair for someone else to say that is my tree, i want that. but it is not a universal application. like you take your car to get it fixed. they fix it and add something to it and make it more valuable. it doesn't mean it is theirs now. so in some situations you can obtain property that didn't belong to you by changing the character and adding value to

it. >> like a car in a junk yard and they soup it up to be a race car. >> right. you could take something that is abandoned. that is a good point. something you find and someone didn't want anymore, and later now it has value wait, i want that. i don't know. take clay and make it into something. >> something you see on the side of the road like a grill or something. you pick it up and

fix it, and then -- >> you make art out of it. yeah. where is my grill? so it could happen. then confusion.confusion is a little confusing but it contains two of my favorite words, commingling and fungible. i just love to say them. i don't know why. fungible is fun. it is in the word. fungible means like goods. so think of things that are so alike you can't tell them apart. it gives you an

example of oil or grain. if you mixed them together you wouldn't be able to distinguish. so what do they call the things in farms, silos? right? you pour some grain in there, like a co-op, right, everybody is pouring grain in there. they don't get back out their same grain. what do they usually get out? >> whatever is at the top. >> or money. they get a share equal to what they

put in, but it is not going to be the same grain or oil or whatever. >> economic example would be putting your money in a bank. just because you put money in the bank does not mean you get back the exact same bills later on. >> yes. >> you get other bills. >> except for me, when i go back in and they give me money and make a withdrawal and i go excuse me, these are not my same dollars, they just

look at me weird. i have a list here. these do not match up. i put a smiley face on my dollar. this is not it. who drew on my dollar bill? i don't want this. so lost, mislaid, and abandoned. you are on your way to class. you have your book in your book bag. unbeknownst to you it slips out. you keep on going to class and get in class. i say what about that in re estate of piper case? pull

your books out. you reach in and it is not there. your book is lost. sold by now. it was involuntarily put there,and you don't know how to find it. now, why do we care about that? because if someone else finds it there are special rules, and contrary to popular belief it is not always finders keepers, losers weepers. although, position is nine-tenths, four-fifths, whatever, of the

law, right? in the case of lost property you are supposed to be holding on to it for the true owner or give to someone else to hold on to it for the true owner. has anybody ever found anything on campus? >> yes. a gold card. >> awesome. what did you do with it? >> i took it to the campus police. >> there you go. >> maxed it out. >> it was actually a staff's. >> oh, nice.>> you should

have maxed it. >> i went to the police station. >> i found it in their office. so, yeah -- >> i was in their office going through their stuff. >> and i found this gold card. that is awesome you did that. so you are holding onto it yourself. i feel kind of uncomfortable holding on to it, nobody is going to know i have got it, so i take it to the police. i had that happen to me this

semester. i couldn't find my keys. my keys have -- you guys have seen my keys, right, a big old wad. so this was concerning to me. i went straight to campus police and said i don't know what happened to my keys. i had them in my class. i think what i did today, apparently didn't learn my lesson. i have to lock this back and then fish for my key. i will just leave the key in there. i don't

know what happened. maybe i just left from there. he said not in lost and found. i freaked out. i looked all over the place. i asked everybody. i went back and looked again and again couldn't find them. the next morning i went in to the police to report they are gone, people have access to some things now, and as i am reporting i look behind the police officer and they are laying

on the counter. i said and they look like those right there. they were like somebody just turned these in. thank you. >> i spent three days in the lounge up there. that was nice. thank you. >> three days in the lounge. >> where we do our group exercises. it was nice being able to get in there. >> oh, i see. you ate out of the refrigerator? oh, that wasn't good. probably shouldn't have

done that. so that was lost. there was a tv show lost. were they lost? i don't know. that was like -- it was six or seven years of a trip of some kind. i don't know what was going on there. did you guys see the end? >> it was sci-fi. >> oh, spoiler. >> it went too sci-fi. >> yeah, it was weird. all right. mislaid is different. you come into class with your book, but you are so fascinated by

our discussion of personal property that you leave with your classmates talking about those excellent points your professor made and how much you learned and how you can't wait to share it with the rest of society, and i hear you talking about it all the way down the hall, and then i look and there you have forgotten your book. so you voluntarily opened and put it there, but now you can't

find it. notice what it says. i, the finder, if i find it, am supposed to be a steward for you. again, it doesn't become mine just because i find it because your intent was not to give it up. you just put it somewhere and now you can't find it. sometimes it just depends on how you find something. like let's say somebody finds a briefcase at the dry cleaners. do you think the briefcase is

lost, mislaid, or abandoned? >> mislaid. >> probably mislaid. somebody came in and had their arms full of stuff, set down their briefcase, turned in their clothes and left. there it sits. if they were going to abandon their briefcase they probably wouldn't haul it into a dry cleaners to do it, unless it is ticking, i guess. then maybe they abandon it. in this case -- this might be more

realistic with your book. you know right where you put it, and you don't want it back. so you discard it voluntarily. i remember one time when my jeep blew up, not the whole gas can incident. the engine blew while i was driving down the road. i was on 196 going over market. all the sudden eww. as i was coasting onto market i thought to myself shall i abandon this vehicle? then i

felt bad for someone having to take care of it, so i went to the dealer and found out how much it was going to be to fix it and ask what the cheapest i could do it for, and they told me how much it costs for a rebuilt engine. i had them -- i put a rebuilt engine into it. i decided not to abandon it. you do find abandoned cars. you see cars on the side of the road. they put that sticker in the

window. the sticker is hey, you, you are not supposed to leave it here. what is your intent? are you parking? did you lose it? what if you find a boat on the side of the road? lost, mislaid, or abandoned? >> mislaid. >> like somebody was crap, i knew i put my boat somewhere. i just can't find it anymore. (laughing) where did i put that boat? probably not. lost? you are driving down

the road and it flings off and parks on the side of the road. probably not. abandoned? if you are going to abandon a boat are you going to drive it on the highway and leave it there? maybe not. the answer might be none of the above. the person just put it there, and they are coming back for it. sometimes there are statutes that take care of that. this is a real case. a guy is driving down the road.

he sees a boat. he knows he can't just hook it up and take it. so he contacts the police and says i found this boat. i don't know what the true owner intended when they left it here, but if they don't want it anymore i do. they said cool, hooked it up, put it in the impound lot. then what happened? >> got a call. >> nope. they did all their statutory requirements and notifying who they believed

to be the owner. the owner never claimed it. >> give it to the guy? >> nope. >> auctioned it. >> they did. then guess what they did with the proceeds? >> they kept it. >> yeah. >> my brother drives an abandoned truck legally. it was abandoned in the work parking lot. he called the police, and they had to file a form. they put a notice on the vehicle for 30 days, and after like four or five

months they sent him the title for it. >> awesome. so my point is sometimes it is statutory what you are supposed to do with property. you find it, and what happens if you give it to the government? they say the big thing is about we have to pay to store it, hold on to it for the owner and expense of notifying people and auctioning it off and everything. i suppose there is some money to

be made in it. also, if you go to the state's website, there is an area for abandoned property. shall we go there live during our recording? >> there is also a commercial on tv that says this money has been abandoned and we are auctioning off to the public. have you seen those ads? >> yes, i have. so let's try -- what is it? state of -- >> (indistinct speaking) >> i didn't know that was the

direct link. >> i have money that has been in my family, and i moved, and they couldn't send me my last paycheck. >> really? >> one was insurance refund. >> what did i do? i think i went into online services. unclaimed property. here we go. you probably gave me the direct link to it. reporting unclaimed property. money quest. there you go. you knew what you were talking about. there is some

searching. over on the left there are some other links to areas of the site. anybody want to search? >> search my name. >> let's not do that live. who knows what will come up. >> that is my dad's stuff. >> yeah, just because it might be out there for everybody to see i don't want to put any student names in it. let's put my name in it. there is my real name, garret. oh, there is nothing.

darn. >> there is nothing in michigan. >> unless i didn't search under the right name. what is that? i can't share all those. so there are statutes that address what happens to property people don't claim and ways you can find it and claim it. think of all the luggage. >> have you ever been to that store? >> yeah. you mean the physical warehouses where they have the stuff?

>> yeah. >> no. i've been online to the store. what is it, unclaimed property dot something or other? you can go there. so we have a little time. we will introduce the idea of bailments.we probably won't get all the way through. maybe we will. so we talked a lot of how you can have title to, lease, get gifted property. bailment is something different. a bailment is when you give your property to

someone else not as a gift but you plan on getting it back. in other words, you are giving position to someone else but not title. a lot of times when i say how many have heard of or been involved in a bailment few people -- they say i have. but if you think of it in terms of have you ever had someone else hold onto your property or have you ever held onto someone else's property,

can you think of any examples of that? >> borrowing someone's car. >> right. so somebody borrows your car or you borrow their car, they are not giving it to you. you are holding on to it. so why do we care about the distinction of a gift, owning something outright, and a bailment? because sometimes it matters what we have to do at the end or what our responsibility if something happens

to it while we are holding on to it. if it is a gift it is ours and whatever we do to it or whatever happens to it is our own problem. if we are holding on to it for someone else, then it is a problem if something happens to it. anybody ever fly on an airline and check their bags? they are your bags, your property inside the bags. you are handing it to someone else to hold on to for you. what do

you expect should happen when you are done flying? it is your property. you ought to get it back. any expectations about how you should get it back? >> the same condition. >> more or less,except for all the disclaimers they put on it. >> i want it full and not empty when i get it back. >> the last time we flew to disney world we stayed in some -- we try to stay someplace different

when we go down there, and we stayed in these time shares that had a kitchen. my wife decided that she would put some food in the luggage that we checked.maybe it could have been the big bag of powdered sugar, but our bags didn't show up on the other end. so there we were. it was freezing in disney when we got there, and all we had was the clothes we had and no luggage for a couple days. no

one contacted us and told us anything. eventually we tracked them down, and homeland security had gotten a hold of them. >> ate all the cookies. >> yeah, ate all the good cookies.tore it all apart. there was rice all over the place inside of it and everything else. we decided on the trip home not to put food in our luggage and ship it. >> no white powders. >> yeah. that was probably a bad

idea. so a bailment is formed any time you give personal property. so point number one, bailments apply to personal property, not real property, not kids. if someone is babysitting your kids that is not a bailment. here, hold my kids. now, here, hold my dog does, like a kennel, or whatever they call those, or a stable for your horse, or whatever you have someone hold onto, hold

your horses. then that would be a bailment. you check your coat. what does the sign say when you check your coat? >> not responsible. >> whatever you stuff in there --they only want to be responsible for what they know about. so going on, it says without intent to transfer title. when you hand someone your coat or have the valet park your car, you expect they will bring it back

to you. you are the person who owns the property who is having someone else hold on to it. you are called the bailor. hint, you will see those terms in the future. you want to make sure you have the parties right. who is the bailee? the one who is holding onto the property that doesn't belong to them and has certain duties to take care of it while they do, usually under some type of

agreement, not always written. i mean when you park your car you might get a ticket or scan your card. a student asked me one time, i parked my car in grcc's garage and a car next to it caught on fire and damaged my car, is grcc responsible? like i was going to answer that. should i tell you if my employer is responsible for your damages? no. but a lot of times it matters what your

understanding or agreement is when you put it there, right? i mean a lot of times it says park your car here, but we are not responsible if something happens to it. check your coat, but we are not responsible -- there was a case where a guy parks his -- he is checking into a hotel. he has a cadillac.he has the -- tips the valet to park it. he comes out the next day, and it is gone. he

claims his car is stolen. anything he had laying in the car has been stolen, and that he had a bunch of cash and jewelry in the trunk. of course, yeah. what do you know, the receipts for the jewelry were in the bags in the trunk. i mean, you think about that at the store when someone says would you like that in the bag or on you. do you ever think why do they ask you that? >> yeah, and i know

why, because we do that, too. >> why? >> we will do that to give them the bag so it is proof they bought it. >> somebody later might ask for that, too. so sometimes it is a question of is it yours. other times, if you think about it, somebody runs through the mall and swipes your stuff, and they now have your bag with your receipt. if somebody said whose is it -- maybe that would prove it was

yours, because it depends on what was on the receipt. you may not have anything on yourself now to document it is yours, throw the receipt away. i told you about my buddy who had his jeep smashed at the car wash. so sometimes you hand your stuff to somebody, and you expect it will get back in better condition and it comes out worse. so there are many examples of a bailment, and there

are certain duties the bailor and bailee have. the main one is at the end of the bailment, for whatever period of time that is -- sometimes it is implied. like when you fly you expect to get it back at the other end. the main expectation is you get it back in as good or better condition as you lent it out. but, that depends on what you were intending when you agreed. so here are the

elements of a bailment. much like there were elements of a gift there are elements of a bailment. it has to be personal property. however, that personal property could be tangible or intangible. stock certificate, coat.stock certificate has physical existence, but it certifies something else that is intangible. so you need it to be personal property. you also have to have

delivery, again just like a gift. it is not enough to intend to give something to someone else to hold on to. you actually have to give it to them to hold on to. it could be actual or constructive. sometimes i have people move and they have stuff stored in one of those storage garages. someone else is -- they are not holding on to it. i am not holding on to it. some else -- a third party is. think

about it. warehouses are bailees, building where other people put their stuff sometimes. and the final element is you have to have an agreement, and that agreement could be expressed, written, oral, could be implied. make sure when you are looking at a question on a future assessment it has all these elements. notice in the middle of that there is -- i tell you it is voluntary and an

agreement that can be express or implied, but then notice the term involuntary bailment. sometimes you are holding on to stuff, and the law imposes duties on you to take care of it while you are. so we have given some examples of how you might be holding on to someone else's property. you are a caretaker for it. you ought to give it back. got it, three elements, personal property, not real

property, not kids, could be a dog. >> not land. >> not land, right. yeah, not realty. so if you are taking notes there are three types of bailments. a bailor benefit bailment, bailee benefit bailment, mutual benefit bailment. did you get those? should i say it slower? a bailment for the sole benefit of the bailor. why would i give my stuff to someone else and they get no benefit out of

it? can you think of a situation where you are doing that? >> storing a car in a friend's garage. >> right. you are going away. you need someone to hold -- you are not paying him to do it. you don't even want him to use your stuff. you just want him to hold on to it as a favor. they are not benefiting from it. if that is the case, another term you see it called is it is a gratuitous bailment.

they are doing it out of the kindness of their heart. they are not getting any benefit out of it, the bailee isn't. all this is about duty of care. if you are holding on to someone else's stuff as a favor to them and you are not getting any benefit out of the bailment yourself, you just pretty much don't have to do much. they park the car in your garage, and you can just leave it there.

>> what if you hit the parked car? >> i would think that would be something you would do that you should be responsible for. i think it is much like parking your car and on the ticket it says we are not responsible for damage, but then they damage it. i think they should be responsible for that. i would say that is gross negligence. but that is a big question. so somebody parks it in your

garage. you leave the garage door down, and someone breaks in and steals it. should you be liable for that? i don't think so. i don't think you did anything wrong. it is not your fault. i suppose if you left it out in the yard with the keys in the in money for gas that would be different. then there is the bailee benefit bailment. the only person benefiting from the bailment is the person

you are giving the personal property to. that would be, hey, can i borrow your car? sure, go ahead. do i need to pay you for it? no, just get it back to me. so you are doing a favor for whoever you are giving the property to. in that case they have a high degree of care. they are the only one benefiting from it. when they get it back to you it ought to be taken care of. something happens to it

while they are holding on to it they should be responsible for it. >> like if you borrowed a friend's car to go to a grocery store and on the way back you get into an accident. >> right. then that should be their responsibility to make sure they get it back to you in the same or better condition. then a mutual benefit bailment, meaning both the bailor and bailee benefit from the bailment.

there is a lot of those. >> oil service place. >> sure. that is a good one. you take your car in. they change your oil. you get new oil. they get the old stuff. it sounds like they don't benefit, but they charge you, right? then they ask you a bunch of questions. looks like your light is out. you need a new lamp. looks like your fluid is down. >> i took my car to an oil change place

once, and i thought everything was fine and dandy because i trust them because they are an oil change place. a couple days later i find out -- i know the tires need 35 psi. my car tire had 46 psi. i almost blew out the tire. if i had driven it further i -- >> how did you discover that? >> i tested that. the steering column wasn't quite the way it was. >> it felt kind of weird. >> yup.

>> yeah, this is the question that comes up. what happens if they cross thread your filter, blow up your tires, or do -- they are supposed to do something good for you, and then it doesn't go so well. what responsibility do they have from what results from their negligence while they were holding on to your stuff. sometimes the whole question of whether they are holding on to

your stuff -- when you drive in yourself and you stay in it and they just change it, that is different than when you take your car to the shop and they hold on to it and test drive it around and while they are test driving it they do something to it. so in that case if it is a mutual benefit bailment then the party who is the bailee owes a duty of reasonable care. maintain it, take care of

it, get it back to you. in fact, there you go. little multimedia slide action going. some of you were looking down and taking notes. let me show you again. >> ooh. >> see that? this is kind of that spectrum of care that is owed. if the one who is holding it -- it's for their benefit, then they have a high degree of care. on the other end, if someone is holding your stuff as a favor to

you they owe a low duty of care, pretty much just keep it in the garage and in the middle. let's just try it out. you mentioned dry cleaner. you take your clothes into the dry cleaner. what kind of bailment is that? mutual benefit bailment. you get supposedly clothes that are better than when you put them in there. they get paid. so what duty of care do they owe to your clothes? >> clean

them. >> reasonable. >> reasonable duty of care. clean it. what do they try to say to you when you drop off your clothes there? >> we are not responsible. >> right. we are not responsible for things that happen to it, but you know from taking the class, or maybe you knew it before, they owe a reasonable duty of care. it is possible you put an ink pen in the pocket or something, but they shouldn't

trash it and go we don't have any liability because we said we don't. so they ought to give it back to you. if they lose it, that should be their problem. all right. so rights of the bailee. the bailee is who? the one who is holding on to the property. they have a right to possess it. that is interesting. basically it is saying you drop your car off at the shop. while they are holding on to it

someone else comes along and says give me that car, and they can say no, i am holding on to it for the true owner. you are not the true owner, i have a right to possess it. that way they don't get in trouble.the police come along. hey, what are you doing with that car? it's not yours. i know, but i have been entrusted to hold on to it. i have a right to position. use it. all depending on what the

agreement is, right? a lot of valets like to joy ride in things, especially if it is a high performance car. that is not part of the agreement they should do those things. compensation. again, if that is part of the agreement. if you put your car in the shop, if you get it back you ought to pay for whatever was fixed on it.and right to limit liability. we talked about that numerous

times. a sign that says if something happens to it we are not responsible doesn't necessarily eliminate their obligation to exercise that duty of care we talked about. and then the last one, a duty is to get it back. i mean, we keep saying it like it is a no brainer, but sometimes that is an issue. you breached the duty of giving it back when you can't get it back. why might you not be

able to get it back? you don't have it anymore. you park it in the parking garage and now it is not there. something happens to it and it is not what it used to be. that is duties of the bailee. now rights and duties of the bailor. if someone else is holding on to your stuff they should take care of it. when it is the end of the bailment you should get it back. whatever you ask them to do to it as

part of the agreement they should do. they shouldn't convert it. (sirens blowing) i hope that's not for us. let's say -- i gave you an example of borrowing the neighbor's lawn mower before. if you borrow the neighbor's lawn mower it is to mow your lawn. it's not to what? soup it up, right? go to the drags in cedar springs. they do. hastings, my hometown? grass drags. all right. why don't

you wait for the snow? all right. a right not to be bound by limitation of liability. how does this work? before you park the car there, before you check the coat or whatever you know there are limitations of liability and they are not going to be responsible you could choose not to do it. the airport says if we hold on to your bags we are not liable for this or that. you could choose -- it is

not a good option. in some cases you feel like you don't really have too much of an option. that is why they have insurance, i guess. here is a little bit of a twist. as you give your stuff to somebody else you owe them a duty to protect them from being harmed by what you give them. so you give them your car, it ought to have good brakes. somebody is like can i borrow your car, and you know

your brakes don't work at all you probably ought to mention that or say no. sure, go ahead. it is a different standard depending on who benefits. we know the whole mutual versus sole benefit test. if it is a mutual benefit bailment then when you give it to someone else -- like you give it to the shop to hold on to -- one time i let my brakes go for a while. >> i have that right now.

>> yeah. like they should have been changed a long time ago. but where did i take it? i took it to the brake shop. they were so bad i am like what if someone tries to get in this and test drive it? so i went in and kind of waited a while, like way too long, so take my word for it there are no brakes. it is making a lot of noise. in that case if you know of a defect, obvious or hidden, you need to tell

them. now, if they ask to borrow your car then you ought to tell them what you know about it. you can borrow it but the whatever isn't so great. all right. we have a couple more minutes, and you guys look like you don't want to leave yet. different types of bailees. common carriers. what would be an example of a common carrier? >> fedex? >> right. fedex, trucking companies, anybody

whose business is to haul other businesses' stuff. >> two men and a truck. >> right. two men and a truck, two women and a truck, two robots and a truck, whatever, right? basically when you see one of those two men and a truck trucks going down the road with two men in it (laughing) do you know that it is not their stuff, right? it is someone else's stuff. that is what they do.they don't

haul their own stuff around. they haul someone else's stuff. so they are a common carrier. they are a what? two men and a truck is a bailee, right? what kind of benefit is that? mutual benefit bailment. that means they owe a reasonable duty of care to your stuff while they are carrying it around, and this slide just says they are strictly liable if something happens to it. they don't later

get to say sorry, not our stuff. it isn't their stuff, but they are responsible. you see a truck driving down the road hauling someone's produce or whatever. they get into a wreck. it is not their stuff. they are still liable for it. there are some statutory exceptions up there. i know you want me to go through each one of them in painstaking detail, but i will just brush over them. act

of god. act of a bad rap group. all these other ones listed up there. >> it is good you know that. >> maybe not. maybe it is not good. special types of bailments. we mentioned warehouses already. innkeepers. hasn't been called that for a long time. hotels, motels, they keep your stuff sometimes and hold on to it for you. you put your stuff in the room and go somewhere. what do they tell you if

you have your stuff in your own room and you go somewhere? >> lock it. >> lock it up. we don't have control of it and don't know what will happen if somebody gets in there. i always thought that was weird about disney. they say lock up your stuff, we don't control our housekeeping staff. housekeeping staff have a key to the safe. weird.